Just saying, I don’t know if it’s just me, but I’ve noticed they’re some things people will use to defend Why Lams wasn’t real/can’t be proved, and yet when this same things are applied to other straight relationships nobody thinks anything about it?? Like how people say we can’t prove Alexander’s feelings were returned because so many of John’s letters are missing, and yet we’re also missing literally every single piece of correspondence from Eliza to Alexander and I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone doubt she loved him. If Alexander’s letters to Eliza are enough to prove the nature of their relationship then why not his letters to John?? (Plus if John really didn’t return Alexander’s feelings Hamilton would’ve sounded straight up creepy and delusional on his letters and I highly doubt John would’ve put up with that for so many years).
The same thing happens with the nickname “Dear Girl” (which it seems was sort of popular at the time I think). When Alexander calls Eliza Dear Girl nobody doubts he says it romantically, and when John calls Martha Dear Girl too nobody doubts he means it in a romantic manner (even if he didn’t love her, the guy still had to at least act like he did to compensate for his lack of letters to Martha). But when John calls Alexander “Dear Boy” then the nickname magically looses all romantic meaning. And there are probably more examples but I’m pretty much writing this post on impulse.
So what I’m trying to say is, either judge straight couples as harshly as Lams or judge Lams like those straight couples are judged because otherwise it’s kinda unfair, isn’t it? To put the bar high for Lams and so low for everyone else.
(I’m not sure if I’m making any sense but I’m kinda sleep deprived
Don’t be like me, kids)
Comments (13)
To be honest I think it has nothing to do with the fact that it’s a gay couple more to the fact that there is soooook much of it it can get a bit frustrating when most of the ship art and fanfictions are lams but that’s coming from personal experience.
ooo when did he call him dear boi
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-01-02-0673 around the end of this letter, it’s dated before the Cold in My Professions letter so not many people pay attention to it
I agree strongly
[badly written point ahead]
Yeah, and if having read (at least most of) the Ron Chernow biography, we can safely say that “At the very least” Alexander developed “Something of an Adolescent crush” (can’t the actual quote) on John- At the VERY LEAST is what we CAN SAY really on Lams with 100% certainty. so Lams was TECHNICALLY somewhat real. And I know that “Something of an adolescent crush” doesn’t necessarily mean romantic, but, ya know, crush usually means romantic things so...
And Ron Chernow is a historian. A professional historian, so he has (most likely) way more sources than us to find out these kinds of things, and has way more knowledge of how things worked in those times, so his point is more plausible than any of ours will probably be (if we don’t become historians in the future).
So even Lams wasn’t real, we can say there was at least something in Alexander’s mind that drew him to John, either platonically or romantically. And people would still ship it anyways if it wasn’t real (I surely would) because the Hamilton fandom ships anything and anything (even Alexander x Alexander, because that probably exists somewhere).
(There are like three Say No To This Alexander x Alexander animatics on YT)
Also that, a lot of people seem to forget that some historians do agree they were together, some going even bolder than Chernow and describing them as lovers.
Reply to: OrcasHaveNoChill :coffee:
Exactlly, So it really should be mainly the historians justifying something like this, not really us, unless we have solid points.
Plus, Alex and John would be at a literal DEATH RISK, if anyone found out, so their likely relationship would need to be left with no real proof and only subtle hints, unlike e.g. General Von Steuben, who was more open about these things (though not completely) who was most likely to die in battle (did he even fight? I don’t do much research) than from being killed for being gay.
My experience in every fandom I’ve been in is that the more popular a ship is, the more people think it’s cool and edgy to hate it. The same way popular media becomes cool to hate even though it rarely deserves it.
People that actively deny the historical proof after doing research on it, though, tend to just be homophobic (predominantly if they say there’s no way they’d have been together vs saying they BELIEVE they weren’t together)